Capt Robert Henry Torlesse LIVEING [465]

  General Notes:

Birth Ref Dec quarter 1896 Lewisham 1d 1228 BDM

Robert was in the Tank Corps, and was posted to Egypt c1916 - 1918. He was wounded in the second battle of Gaza in April 1917, when his Mk I male tank was shelled and destroyed. He lost an eye and was for a time dangerously ill.

Tanks were described by the Army as "His Majesty's Land Ship" and had official names. Roberts HMLS, was called "Sir Archibald" after the General Officer Commanding Egypt 1916-1917

Robert's Military Record.
To No.2 Battalion Battalion Commander
L.P.T.B. Home Guard.
1914-1916,19th Royal Fusiliers. (Public School Battalion).
Served overseas, France 1915 to March 1916.
Cadet Course at Keble College, Oxford, March & April 1916.
GrantedCommission, 2nd Lieutenant in H.S.M.G.G. (Royal Tank Corps)
Served overseas, Palestine December 1916.
Wounded at Gaza, 1917. (April) .
Transfered to Delta and Western Force H.Q. Staff, Abassia, on General List,
doing duty as Camp Commandant and Cypher Officer.
Gazetted rank of 1st Lieutenant, November 1917.
Transferred G.H.Q. Cairo & District, doing duty as acting Staff captain.
Returned to England, March 1919
Discharged with rank of 1st.Lieutenant on retired pay and wound pension.
RHTL
2nd. I/C "C" Company
No.2 Battalion.

Robert Henry Torlesse Liveing
Military Years: 1914-1920
Rank: Private subsequently commissioned. Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) Regimental Number: PS/3662 Previous Units: 19/R. Fus. Pte. PS/3662
Ref: Ancestry

Suppliment to London Gazette 13 November 1942.
The Undermentioned to be 2nd Lt.
12 Oct 1942: Lt Robert Henry Torlesse Liveing (244567)

Robert served with distinction in the Home Guard during WWII

Robert on the death of his uncle Edward Henry Liveing received most of the "family relics" as he put it. He further conserved the records mounting some in a folder the family have dubbed "Red Book".
The following are extracts from same:

"Now all that most of the family relics have passed into my hands: I have made a revised list of same From E. H. Liveing's two green notebooks. This has been done as some of the relics from Brookfield House Longstanton Cambridge, were beyond repair. A quantity of books were also left to me but owing to lack of space, I was unable to take them.
Numerous letters, family Bibles and other items I thought should be returned to the respective families of R/Admiral Torlesse of Alverstoke Hants., and Colonel Fenn of Alston Court Nayland. This I did in January 1952."
R.H.T. Liveing
1952.

Army and Navy Club,
Pall Mall, SW1
13 January 1952.
My dear Liveing,
The parcel containing portraits, letters etc arrived safely and without damage on Friday shortly before my wife and I took off for a weekend in London to celebrate her birthday. I have therefore only had time to glance through the contents but I have seen enough to realise how valuable and interesting they will be to me and my family. It must have given you a great deal of trouble to sort things out and I can't thank you adequately for passing them on to me. I am indeed grateful. One of these days when I am in London I would much like to come and see you to thank you personally. I imagine it is quite easy to reach Radlett from here though I haven't made any enquiries yet as to how it may be done. Remember please that we would be delighted to put you up in Nayland at any time she would you care to visit a neighbourhood. With renewed thanks.
Believe me
Yours very sincerely
Alston Fenn.

10 Bury Road,
Alverstoke,
Hampshire
12 January 1952.
My dear Liveing,
Very many thanks for your letter and for bringing up the bonnet box. It was very kind of you to take the trouble, and very convenient for me, as my wife came up to town with the car yesterday to take the boys to a pantomime and so we were able to bring it home last night without any trouble.
I am only sorry that I did not know you were coming so that I could have asked you to lunch. However we must try to meet another time, and I hope next time you come to town and will be free for lunch you will let me know.
The box is certainly a curiosity, and I shall be interested to read the letters some time. I am glad to have Henry B. Torlesse's family Bible. We also have his grandfather's with the record of a large family of Torlesses in the early 18th century.
Yours very sincerely
David Torlesse.

The Red Book also records of these items, originally owned by Charles Liveing:
Empress Josephine Cabinet, which belonged to the Empress and was bought by Charles on one of his many Continental tours.
Relic of the Royal George - a small bronze cannon on an oak carriage, (The Royal George sank off Spithead 1782.)
Bronze figure of a boy - on a Sienna marble pediment.

1939 Register
10 Selborne Gardens , Hendon M.B., Middlesex, England
RobertLiveing16 Sep 1896L P T B (Railway) Mechanic Engineer (Electrician) Married
Josephine (M) Liveing03 Jun 1890Unpaid Domestic DutiesMarried

Liveing Capt R H T 10 Selborne gdns Hendon 3216
Ancestry: London Phone Book 1937/38/39/41/42/43/45/46

Liveing Capt R H T Waverly 8 Hillside Rd Radlett 6327
Ancestry: London Phone Book 1946/47/48/49/50/52/53/54

Liveing R H T Parkbury 74 Offington dv Worthing Swandean 684
Ancestry: Brighton Phone Book 1955/56/57/59/60/61/62/63/64/66/68.

Roberts Will leaves his entire estate to his widow Josephine, who is also his executor.

Liveing Robert Henry Torlesse of Parkbury 74 Offington Drive Worthing died 27 May 1961 Probate London 13 July to Josephine Mary Liveing widow. Effects L5352 10s 0d
Ref: National Probate Calendar.

  Research Notes:

Tanks in Palestine WWI:
A detachment of eight heavy Mark I tanks from the Tank Corps (also known as Heavy Section, Machine Gun Corps) reached the front. Tanks had been in use in France since September 1916 and Palestine was to be the only other theatre of the war they were employed. They "seemed to offer the best chance of a successful frontal assault." Lyden-Bell reported to the War Office that they would frighten the defenders "out of their lives." Senior officers apparently deployed them for this purpose in widely separated pairs.
The tanks which arrived in Palestine in January 1917 had been used for instruction and were not of the latest type, however during a trial attack they proved themselves in the sandy conditions. "The sand though fairly heavy, did not interfere with them in the least. They buzzed along most satisfactorily." They worked well in sand so long as the treads were not greased, which was the normal practice. The tank, War Baby was powered by a Daimler 105 horse power engine. It had a revolver, loop holes, periscopes, dynamos and differentiator, and was armed with four Hotchkiss machine guns and two auxiliary guns. This tank was manned by one officer sitting beside the driver, four gunners on bike seats and two greasers.
The tanks were to be deployed along the front and advance across open country where they could give shelter to the infantry following behind them. However, as the tanks became targets the infantry also suffered, and only two tanks succeeded in reaching their objectives.
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Gaza

WWI Tanks were classified male and female dependent on the main armament carried. For males, this was a naval 6 pounder gun carried in a sponson on the side of the tank and, apart from the barrel being shortened, this was constant all through the war. For females it was 2 machine guns per sponson per side, of differing types as the war progressed.

Re a Liveing Crest.
Waverley
8 Hillside Rd,
Radlett,
Herts.
On February 20, 1952 I wrote to the College of Arms sending a wax seal impression also a very rough sketch of these arms - asking if a search could be made to ascertain if they are the Liveing Arms.
RL

College of Arms London E.C. 4
21st February 1952
RHJ (sic) Liveing Esq.,
Waverley
8 Hillside Rd,
Radlett,
Herts.
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your letter of the 20th of February and enclosures.
If you would care to send the search free of three guineas I shall be pleased to make a search in our records with a view to answering your enquiry. If the arms are found I can then let you know the cost of copies.
Yours faithfully
Anthony R Wagner
Richmond Herald

College of Arms London E.C. 4
26 February 1952
RHJ (sic) Liveing Esq.,
Waverley
8 Hillside Rd,
Radlett,
Herts.
Dear Sir
thank you for your letter of the 22nd of February and enclosed cheque for three guineas for which I send my receipt.
The Arms of which you sent details are in fact those of the family of Levinge of Baddesley, Warwickshire, and elsewhere, as entered in the Visitation of Warwickshire in 1619. Vert a chevron Or in chief three escollops Argent, with the Crest: Within a Chaplet Vert an escallop Argent a branch of this family is represented at the present day by Sir Richard Levinge Bt. In these circumstances your own right to these arms can only be established if it could be shown that you were descended from the Levinge family, and that the name had in some way become altered or corrupted. To ascertain the facts in regard to this genealogical research is necessary, and if he would care to send me such particulars as you have of your own pedigree with places and dates of birth, marriages and death of ancestors in the direct male line where known, I would try to advise you on the possibilities and cost.
Yours faithfully
Anthony R Wagner
Richmond Herald

Copy of a letter dated 27 February 1952 to:
Anthony R Wagner Esq.,
Richmond Herald.
Dear Sir,
I thank you for your letter of 26 February and for the information contained therein also for the trouble you have taken. I appreciate that it would be necessary to show that I must be descended from the Levinge family - unfortunately my pedigree only goes back to 1684 from authentic records - although prior to that date the registers of Harwich, Eling Nr Southampton, and Hadley in Suffolk show such names as Lyvine, Livinge, Lyving, Levying and many other similar corruptions from 1546; but I have no scroll up until 1684 to prove my right. It is curious that a great uncle Captain William Liveing R.N. had a seal of the arms in question also a silver salver (both of which I now possess) with the same arms in described here on - this was a presentation on his retirement as chairman of the Governors of the Paddington Board of Guardians nearly 100 years ago. As I am not in a position to explained a big outlay to further the enquiry is at present I regret I shall have to let the matter drop. I have been collecting and putting together details of my family, hence the enquiry I have made a view.
Thanking you, I am,
Yours faithfully
R.L.
College of Arms London E.C. 4
28 February 1952
RHJ (sic) Liveing Esq.,
Waverley

8 Hillside Rd,
Radlett,
Herts.
Dear Sir
Thank you for your letter of the 27th of February. I appreciate the position but would suggest that when your researches are completed you should submit the pedigree so far as you feel you can establish it for official registration here so that the results gained may not be lost, and a basis may be available for anyone in a position to carry the work further hereafter.
Yours faithfully
Anthony R. Wagner
Richmond Herald.

Copy of a letter dated 29 February 1952 to:
Anthony R Wagner
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your letter of 28 February: I am greatly obliged for your suggestion and help in the matter. I have every hope of taking it up again at some later date. All the material so far collected I am carefully keeping together.
Yours faithfully
RL

RHT Liveing Esq.,
Parkbury,
74 Offington Drive,
Worthing,
Sussex.
College of Arms London E.C. 4
12 January 1955
Dear Sir
Further to my assistat's letter of 29 December 1954, the cost of cleaning and flattening out as much as possible the painting of arms you have sent me, and touching up the paint when necessary, will amount to L3-2-6.
If you would care to send me a cheque for that amount, the work shall be put in hand.
Yours faithfully,
Anthony R Wagner
Richmond Herald.

RHT Liveing Esq.,
Parkbury,
74 Offington Drive,
Worthing,
Sussex.
College of Arms London E.C. 4
17 January 1955
Dear Sir
Thank you for your letter of the 13th January 1955 enclosing a cheque for L3-2-6 for which I send my receipt herewith.
The work shall now be put in hand.
Yours faithfully,
Anthony R Wagner.
Richmond Herald.

  Other Records

1. Census: England, 31 Mar 1901, Lewisham LND. Robert is described as a son aged 4 born Lewisham Kent

2. Robert H T Liveing: Post card to his mother, Mar 1913, England.
Liveing Archive

Postmarked : Tonbridge MR 14 13
Just a line to hope you are quite well and not lonely. We had a most lovely day here yesterday & I hope we have a nice one today. Will you be able to get my camera off so as I can get it on Sat
Much love
Bobbie
Card is of a sailing boat.

3. Robert Henry Torlesse Liveing: Commission Warrent & Notes on Action in GAZA, 26 Apr 1916.

4. Robert H T Liveing: Tank Action Gaza, 1917, Palestine.
Liveing Archive

Details of action when Robert and his crew were wounded when Sir Archibald" took Turkish shells -Palestine, April 1917.

Appendix 1.
17 4 17
Reference Map Gaza 1/40,000.
163^st Infantry Brigade Operation Order Number 7.
Two tanks proceeded into action and 0430 .................. tank Hails Sir Archibald (2 Lt Liveing) was hit on the left track by enemy shell fire knocking the track off, and putting the tank out of action. The officer, 2 Lt Liveing, was wounded in the eyes. The enemy continued to shell the tank and eventually it caught fire. (Gunners Ferguson and Jones were severely wounded and eventually died of wounds; Gunner Bedknow [?] Was wounded in the thigh and had burns on the hands. Gunner Jones wounded in the forearm; the driver and other two gunners escaped with a severe shaking).
L/Cpl Hatherell and gunner Jones acted in a very gallant manner in assisting me to get the wounded from the tank under heavy shellfire. . . . . .
Appears Robert submitted part of the report.

5. Robert H T Liveing: WWI Service, 1917, Palestine.
Liveing Archive

Robert was part of the first deployment of the Tank outside the European Theatre in WWI, he lost an eye and very nearly his life when his "Bus - Sir Archibald" broke down & took Turkish shells, Palestine, 19 April 1917.
Note centre, the Tank's Daimler engine, and telegrams advising Robert had been wounded.

6. Robert Henry T Liveing: Images from across his lifetime.
With his sisters, 1914 WWI, his medal record card,His home in Hendon London, Tank museum receipt of his papers (now lost !), his 1950 Austin A40

7. If the Invader Comes: How to act in the event of an invasion of Great Britain, WWII.

8. Robert H T Liveing: WWII Service, 1939 To 1945, England.
Liveing Archive

Robert served with distinction in the Home Guard during WWII.
With his wife Josephine, and his parents and children, WWII

Robert married Josephine Mary BEHAN [466] [MRIN: 133], daughter of Edward Christopher BEHAN [14792] and Jane REILLY [14793], in Nov 1918. (Josephine Mary BEHAN [466] was born on 3 Jun 1889 in 16 Basin Lane Dublin, baptised on 6 Jun 1889 in St James Dublin, died on 4 Nov 1970 and was buried in Durrington Cemetery Worthing SSX.)