The Kings Candlesticks - Family Trees
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Robert LIVEING [427]
(1714-1785)
Sarah HEARN [428]
(Abt 1723-1772)
Thomas HARROLD [131]
(1726-1791)
Deborah BETTS [21861]
(1726-1809)
Commander Thomas LIVEING R N [230]
(1760-1836)
Harriet HARROLD [231]
(1762-1837)

Harriet LIVEING [227]
(1789-1864)

 

Family Links

Spouses/Children:
Capt Robert FENN [198]

Harriet LIVEING [227]

  • Born: 21 Sep 1789, St Nicholas Harwich ESS
  • Christened: 20 Nov 1789, St Nicholas Harwich ESS
  • Marriage: Capt Robert FENN [198] on 18 May 1813 in St Nicholas Harwich ESS
  • Died: 28 Mar 1864, Nayland SFK aged 74

bullet   Cause of her death was a diseased heart, 1year certified.

picture

bullet  General Notes:


Nothing is known why and when Harriet returned to her family from her marriage to Robert Fenn. No reference to Robert Fenn is found in any of family correspondence which has survived. However her father Thomas clearly put her inheritance beyond the reach of Robert, when he wrote his will in 1833.

Alston Fenn writes in the 1950,s "I have a nice water colour of our Gt Grandmother Harriet Liveing (now in the possession of E L Fenn 2017) who married Robert Fenn and whose mother was Harriet Harrold. It was given me by Dolly (Cotes). I wish I could find out something about Robert Fenn, we know he left Harriet but where he came from or where he went is a closed book"

Harriet is mentioned in many letters written by her mother Harriet, she later lived at various family address's, when she was separated from Robert.
1861 Census lists for 31 Bear St Nayland; Harriet Fenn Widow 70yrs Fund holder. Head of house. Sarah Daniel visitor un 60yrs.Companion. Eleanor E Cousins un 21. Servant.
Harriet was identified by family letters living as follows:
1828 15 July Harwich "Harriet is but poorly having cough and cold and continues to live almost without victuals she will be happy to hear from you (Catherine Liveing nee Downing) when ever you find opportunity to write". 1828 4 Dec Harwich : letter
1831 Harwich. Harriet's mother writing to Edward her son says " Harriet is very poorly she is so pale she vexes me when I look at her . . . . . she will fret . . . . . fearing that Robert will lose the situation . . . . . should the Reform Bill pass we . . . . . we can to make her hope for tho. . . . . as . . . . . To leave the . . . . . to God. I have observed to her that even if it . . . . . had in it it might not eventually be best. I want her to lean more on God and less on man. Charles writes that he is much liked and he has no doubt but he will do well, and if Clerks are appointed it is most likely he will be established".
1831 18 Dec. Harriet is very poorly - looks about the colour of a turnip I think she much want some pills like those Edwd ordered for Miss Beaumont - she puts me in pain to see her - our new troubles have not made her better
1832 10 Feb Nayland? possibly with her brother, her father offers her money : letter
1836 April? Harwich. Harriet's mother writing to her daughter-in law Catherine Liveing (Katy) mentions Harriet in connection with buying some pigeons "knowing you and Edward are fond of them Harriet bespoke half a dozen when they could be obtained, these I have now sent were brought this morning, they are wood birds as you will see, Harriet thinks the flavour of them is higher than the tame pigeons".
1836 10 June Harwich : letter
1839 (abt) London (C/o National Debt Office where her son Robert worked)
1842 Sept. Horksley Park. Francis Liveing writes to her mother from Tom Fenn's, Rushall refering to Robert Fenn proposing to visit his mother at Horksley Park (Essex?)
1848 21 & 24 Aug Kelvedon ESS. Robert while travelling Nth writes two letters to his mother C/o T C Harrold Esq Feering Nr Kelvedon Essex. Robert visited Fortescue & Mrs Knotterford at Alveston Manor 3 miles from Stratford

Harriet Liveing nee Harrold writes 5 Sep 1825 Liveing Archive 52a LT6
. . . . . Aunt Downes has been with us nearly a fortnight - Harriet is gone home with her - they left us last Tuesday - on Friday they hired a donkey and cart and went to Denham? To see Uncle and Harriets children - they heard from Edwards account to me that Uncle was not at all likely to come and see us this summer as he is so lame so my Aunt wishing very much to see him took that mode of convenience . . . . .

Harriet is named a beneficiary in her fathers will dated 5 Oct 1833 and described as the wife of Robert Fenn. However her legacy is placed in trust for her and "her present or any after taken husband" specifically denied any benefit from the proceeds.

The 1851 Census records Harriet as a widow.

Her grave in St James Churchyard Nayland reads "In memory of Harriet widow of Robert Fenn gent who died March 28th 1864 aged 74 years. What doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly and love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God"

Death Cert No 477 Dist Sudbury-Bures, registered 13 Mar 1864. confirms age at 74 yrs. Occupation " Widow of Robert Fenn landed proprietor". Informant "The mark of Eliza Burrows present at the death Nayland".

Will dated 27 Feb 1864 was proved 2 May 1864, at under 1000pds by sons Robert Liveing Fenn Gent of The National Debt Office and and Thomas Harrold Fenn Surgeon of Nayland, executors and sole beneficiaries in equal shares.

Portrait of Harriet in possession of E.L. Fenn Auckland N Z 1998.

bullet  Research Notes:



Copford Lodge.
Nr Colchester
Augst 2d 1873.

My dear Edward
I have been staying lately with cousin's Margaret and Sam a
t Nayland. The former thought the "Blue Man" had better be photographed for you whilst I was there, as there seemed some difficulty in accomplishing it, which appeared to be from fear lest any thing should happen to the picture, more particularly the frame which is so worm eaten, as Sam would be so much troubled she said, if any accident befell it. I promised to do anything I could, as conveying it to and from Faiers house if necessary etc, but when we spoke to Faiers about it he said he
(Page 2)
would come and photograph it in the courtyard, which he did with myself holding it. He undertook to do it for 2/-and he photographed it twice and let me have the two photographs which I send you. He said unless he might take it out of the frame he should not do it better than he has done, as the glass prevents its coming out better - I hope this is the size you wished, Faiers said he photographed in three sizes, and this is the medium one, which I thought would be the best. He suggested that you would greatly improve the photograph by colouring it. Did you know that on the back of the portrait is written Mr Beeston Coyte fixit 1752. Walter Coyte's name is Walter Beeston
(Page 3)
Coyte, Margaret says. The traditional story about this artist Mr B. Coyte, she says, is, that he was in some difficulties and was concealed for some time by Mr Alston in the house at Nayland, when he executed these family portraits. I daresay you may have heard the story before but I did not remember hearing it before - Cousin Sam seemed quite interested when he heard Faiers had been to photograph the picture; as after he had seen the photographs he remarked to me, how astounded our great grandfather would have been should he have known that one day his portrait would be taken by a machine and the sun light.
(Page 4)
it would have made his wig fall off his head!
Annie and George Hand with Basil had preceded me in a visit to their uncle and aunt, and whilst they were in the old house, Annie amused herself, in looking at the old parchments, of which there are a good many in a box in the room with the carved roof. They were turned out of the office Margaret thinks before Sam's time. Out of those which Annie had gathered out of the collection, I sorted a few which I found related to some of the Alston's of Newton and Boxford. You may perhaps have seen these law deeds when you were filling up the Alston pedigree but I have made notes of them which I send, and tied the parchment together in one packet but I have not half looked through the box, and do not know whether Annie has got through it or not.
(Page 5)
The deed in Latin (No 2) I could not read easily, but I think it was about some land at Gestingthorpe.
The name of the house or Hamlet in Newton, in No 4, I could not make out, the capital letter and three or four letters in the middle are so peculiar. Perhaps you know where those Alston's lived in Newton.
The note to Mr Vanderzee from John Noyes I have copied just as it is - Margaret thought it interesting because she did not remember that Mr Vanderzee had been in business at Nayland before her father, but concluded from this he was - I have been making several visits, and end with a week here for I was afraid of giving offence
(Page 6)
if I did not come to Copford before returning to Cambridge, but my inclinations would have taken me back this week in preference to coming here. Betty I think likes having me and says so, and I am very glad to see Harry, as he looks well and seems enjoying himself. He is gone to Colchester with John today - The Ambroses seen both in better health altogether I think Betty wishes me to thank you with her love for what you wrote to her about Copford Church and to say it interested her very much - I left Nayland on Tuesday as Margaret had Theodore and his sister coming the next day - Her visitors have been very constant this summer!
(Page 7)
Mrs Boggis-Rolfe, had often asked me to stay with her at Wormingford and having again invited me just now, I went for a few days, and liked my visit much. I left her on Friday and came here. Do you know the house where she lives, and where her Aunt Miss Ann Rolfe lived before? "Maidstones", the garden is very pretty and old-fashioned, and the house partly old and nice altogether. She is an eccentric creature but most kind and hospitable, and keeps I should think the whole parish comfortable as far as . . . . . Her stepson, Frank, has married some time ago, and is just removed from Granville Pl: to the old house in Hasewood[?] Sq: the baby was with its
(Page 8)
Grandmamma at Wormingford whilst I was there - I saw as much as I could of Mrs Torlesse, Priscilla, and Fanny, but there was no possibility of their having me after I reached Nayland, excepting one night when I slept with Fanny. I thought Mr Torlesse looking altered, but wonderfully bright at times, varying through the day. It was a great pleasure to see him and I was glad to hear him preach last Sunday evening, as perhaps I never may again. I thought Fanny just now looking better than Priscilla, neither being quite up to having so many nephews and nieces at one time. Old James made many enquiries for yourself and all of us, and sent messages. Many people enquired particularly about you; Sir Charles especially seemed troubled you were ill, Mr Birch and Mrs John Brown, Mrs W Danniell, and
(Page 9)
made many enquiries about us and I wish I could hear you were better. You want more of a change than Tansor could afford I feel sure. I am very glad Uncle has had you both, and Margaret, as I know it was a pleasure to him, and I hope poor man he is more comfortable since your visits, and the pain in his head and eye gone - Old James hoped he might be able to leave his wife and go to Tansor the end of this week, for a long hoped-for visit - She is very infirm but cheered up a little when ever I saw her - My first visit was to Mrs Fisher for a fortnight, and I found her wonder-
(Page 10)
-fully well for her age. She is restless like poor old Marion, fancies she should like to go into lodgings at Colchester, instead of living in her own house - I doubt the advantage if she does so, but probably she will never do it - I must leave off scribbling - have not heard whether the Howard's have come to terms about any house yet - Kind love to you and Tassie and all. I don't know whether Margaret returned with you from Tansor.
Ever dear Edward your very affectionate sister
Harriet Liveing.
PS
I saw Theodore and thought he looked a fine strong fellow and very agreeable.

picture

bullet  Other Records



1. Marriage of Harriet & Robert, 18 May 1813, St Nicholas Harwich ESS.
Marriage Register, St Nicholas Harwich Essex.

2. Census: England, 7 Jun 1841, Rushall WIL. Harriet is described as aged 50 of independant means not born in Wiltshire

3. Census: England, 30 Mar 1851, 14 The Green Camberwell Dulwich SRY. Harriet is recorded as head of house widow aged 61 no employment born Harwich ESS

4. Census: England, 8 Apr 1861, 31 Bear St Nayland SFK. Harriet is described as head of house a widow aged 70 fundholder born Harwich ESS Also in the house was Sarah Daniel a companion aged 60 and a general servant.



5. Harriet's Death, 28 Mar 1864.
Harriet in old age, Headstone in Nayland Churchyard, Death Certificate

6. Harriet Liveing.
Liveing Archive


Copford Lodge.
Nr Colchester
Augst 2d 1873.

My dear Edward
I have been staying lately with cousin's Margaret and Sam at Nayland. The former thought the "Blue Man" had better be photographed for you whilst I was there, as there seemed some difficulty in accomplishing it, which appeared to be from fear lest any thing should happen to the picture, more particularly the frame which is so worm eaten, as Sam would be so much troubled she said, if any accident befell it. I promised to do anything I could, as conveying it to and from Faiers house if necessary etc, but when we spoke to Faiers about it he said he
(Page 2)
would come and photograph it in the courtyard, which he did with myself holding it. He undertook to do it for 2/-and he photographed it twice and let me have the two photographs which I send you. He said unless he might take it out of the frame he should not do it better than he has done, as the glass prevents its coming out better - I hope this is the size you wished, Faiers said he photographed in three sizes, and this is the medium one, which I thought would be the best. He suggested that you would greatly improve the photograph by colouring it. Did you know that on the back of the portrait is written Mr Beeston Coyte fixit 1752. Walter Coyte's name is Walter Beeston
(Page 3)
Coyte, Margaret says. The traditional story about this artist Mr B. Coyte, she says, is, that he was in some difficulties and was concealed for some time by Mr Alston in the house at Nayland, when he executed these family portraits. I daresay you may have heard the story before but I did not remember hearing it before - Cousin Sam seemed quite interested when he heard Faiers had been to photograph the picture; as after he had seen the photographs he remarked to me, how astounded our great grandfather would have been should he have known that one day his portrait would be taken by a machine and the sun light.
(Page 4)
it would have made his wig fall off his head!
Annie and George Hand with Basil had preceded me in a visit to their uncle and aunt, and whilst they were in the old house, Annie amused herself, in looking at the old parchments, of which there are a good many in a box in the room with the carved roof. They were turned out of the office Margaret thinks before Sam's time. Out of those which Annie had gathered out of the collection, I sorted a few which I found related to some of the Alston's of Newton and Boxford. You may perhaps have seen these law deeds when you were filling up the Alston pedigree but I have made notes of them which I send, and tied the parchment together in one packet but I have not half looked through the box, and do not know whether Annie has got through it or not.
(Page 5)
The deed in Latin (No 2) I could not read easily, but I think it was about some land at Gestingthorpe.
The name of the house or Hamlet in Newton, in No 4, I could not make out, the capital letter and three or four letters in the middle are so peculiar. Perhaps you know where those Alston's lived in Newton.
The note to Mr Vanderzee from John Noyes I have copied just as it is - Margaret thought it interesting because she did not remember that Mr Vanderzee had been in business at Nayland before her father, but concluded from this he was - I have been making several visits, and end with a week here for I was afraid of giving offence
(Page 6)
if I did not come to Copford before returning to Cambridge, but my inclinations would have taken me back this week in preference to coming here. Betty I think likes having me and says so, and I am very glad to see Harry, as he looks well and seems enjoying himself. He is gone to Colchester with John today - The Ambroses seen both in better health altogether I think Betty wishes me to thank you with her love for what you wrote to her about Copford Church and to say it interested her very much - I left Nayland on Tuesday as Margaret had Theodore and his sister coming the next day - Her visitors have been very constant this summer!
(Page 7)
Mrs Boggis-Rolfe, had often asked me to stay with her at Wormingford and having again invited me just now, I went for a few days, and liked my visit much. I left her on Friday and came here. Do you know the house where she lives, and where her Aunt Miss Ann Rolfe lived before? "Maidstones", the garden is very pretty and old-fashioned, and the house partly old and nice altogether. She is an eccentric creature but most kind and hospitable, and keeps I should think the whole parish comfortable as far as . . . . . Her stepson, Frank, has married some time ago, and is just removed from Granville Pl: to the old house in Hasewood[?] Sq: the baby was with its
(Page 8)
Grandmamma at Wormingford whilst I was there - I saw as much as I could of Mrs Torlesse, Priscilla, and Fanny, but there was no possibility of their having me after I reached Nayland, excepting one night when I slept with Fanny. I thought Mr Torlesse looking altered, but wonderfully bright at times, varying through the day. It was a great pleasure to see him and I was glad to hear him preach last Sunday evening, as perhaps I never may again. I thought Fanny just now looking better than Priscilla, neither being quite up to having so many nephews and nieces at one time. Old James made many enquiries for yourself and all of us, and sent messages. Many people enquired particularly about you; Sir Charles especially seemed troubled you were ill, Mr Birch and Mrs John Brown, Mrs W Danniell, and
(Page 9)
made many enquiries about us and I wish I could hear you were better. You want more of a change than Tansor could afford I feel sure. I am very glad Uncle has had you both, and Margaret, as I know it was a pleasure to him, and I hope poor man he is more comfortable since your visits, and the pain in his head and eye gone - Old James hoped he might be able to leave his wife and go to Tansor the end of this week, for a long hoped-for visit - She is very infirm but cheered up a little when ever I saw her - My first visit was to Mrs Fisher for a fortnight, and I found her wonder-
(Page 10)
-fully well for her age. She is restless like poor old Marion, fancies she should like to go into lodgings at Colchester, instead of living in her own house - I doubt the advantage if she does so, but probably she will never do it - I must leave off scribbling - have not heard whether the Howard's have come to terms about any house yet - Kind love to you and Tassie and all. I don't know whether Margaret returned with you from Tansor.
Ever dear Edward your very affectionate sister
Harriet Liveing.
PS
I saw Theodore and thought he looked a fine strong fellow and very agreeable.



7. Harriet Liveing: Letter to her Brother Edward Liveing, 2 Aug 1873, Copford Lodge ESS.
Liveing Archive
255a Liveing Harriet Jnr 107 to E Liveing 100 re Alstons 2 Aug 1873 Pgs 1,4 of 13
The transcriber has not replicated Harriet's abbreviations, the pages are not in order.

Copford Lodge.
Nr Colchester
Augst 2d 1873.

My dear Edward
I have been staying lately with cousin's Margaret1 and Sam2 at Nayland. The former thought the "Blue Man"3 had better be photographed for you whilst I was there, as there seemed some difficulty in accomplishing it, which appeared to be from fear lest any thing should happen to the picture, more particularly the frame which is so worm eaten, as Sam would be so much troubled she said, if any accident befell it. I promised to do anything I could, as conveying it to and from Faiers house if necessary etc, but when we spoke to Faiers about it he said he
(Page 2)
would come and photograph it in the courtyard, which he did with myself holding it. He undertook to do it for 2/-and he photographed it twice and let me have the two photographs which I send you. He said unless he might take it out of the frame he should not do it better than he has done, as the glass prevents its coming out better - I hope this is the size you wished, Faiers said he photographed in three sizes, and this is the medium one, which I thought would be the best. He suggested that you would greatly improve the photograph by colouring it. Did you know that on the back of the portrait is written Mr Beeston Coyte fixit 1752. Walter Coyte's name is Walter Beeston
(Page 3)
Coyte, Margaret says. The traditional story about this artist Mr B. Coyte, she says, is, that he was in some difficulties and was concealed for some time by Mr Alston in the house at Nayland, when he executed these family portraits. I daresay you may have heard the story before but I did not remember hearing it before - Cousin Sam seemed quite interested when he heard Faiers had been to photograph the picture; as after he had seen the photographs he remarked to me, how astounded our great grandfather would have been should he have known that one day his portrait would be taken by a machine and the sun light.
(Page 4)
it would have made his wig fall off his head!
Annie and George Hand4 with Basil had preceded me in a visit to their uncle and aunt, and whilst they were in the old house, Annie amused herself, in looking at the old parchments, of which there are a good many in a box in the room with the carved roof. They were turned out of the office Margaret thinks before Sam's time. Out of those which Annie had gathered out of the collection, I sorted a few which I found related to some of the Alston's of Newton and Boxford. You may perhaps have seen these law deeds when you were filling up the Alston pedigree but I have made notes of them which I send, and tied the parchment together in one packet but I have not half looked through the box, and do not know whether Annie has got through it or not.
(Page 5)
The deed in Latin (No 2) I could not read easily, but I think it was about some land at Gestingthorpe.
The name of the house or Hamlet in Newton, in No 4, I could not make out, the capital letter and three or four letters in the middle are so peculiar. Perhaps you know where those Alston's lived in Newton.
The note to Mr Vanderzee5 from John Noyes6 I have copied just as it is - Margaret thought it interesting because she did not remember that Mr Vanderzee had been in business at Nayland before her father, but concluded from this he was - I have been making several visits, and end with a week here for I was afraid of giving offence
(Page 6)
if I did not come to Copford before returning to Cambridge, but my inclinations would have taken me back this week in preference to coming here. Betty I think likes having me and says so, and I am very glad to see Harry, as he looks well and seems enjoying himself. He is gone to Colchester with John today - The Ambroses7 seen both in better health altogether I think Betty wishes me to thank you with her love for what you wrote to her about Copford Church and to say it interested her very much - I left Nayland on Tuesday as Margaret had Theodore8 and his sister coming the next day - Her visitors have been very constant this summer!
(Page 7)
Mrs Boggis-Rolfe, had often asked me to stay with her at Wormingford and having again invited me just now, I went for a few days, and liked my visit much. I left her on Friday and came here. Do you know the house where she lives, and where her Aunt Miss Ann Rolfe lived before? "Maidstones", the garden is very pretty and old-fashioned, and the house partly old and nice altogether. She is an eccentric creature but most kind and hospitable, and keeps I should think the whole parish comfortable as far as she can. Her stepson, Frank, has married some time ago, and is just removed from Granville Pl: to the old house in Hasewood[?] Sq: the baby was with its
(Page 8)
Grandmamma at Wormingford whilst I was there - I saw as much as I could of Mrs Torlesse, Priscilla9, and Fanny10, but there was no possibility of their having me after I reached Nayland, excepting one night when I slept with Fanny. I thought Mr Torlesse11 looking altered, but wonderfully bright at times, varying through the day. It was a great pleasure to see him and I was glad to hear him preach last Sunday evening, as perhaps I never may again. I thought Fanny just now looking better than Priscilla, neither being quite up to having so many nephews and nieces at one time. Old James made many enquiries for yourself and all of us, and sent messages. Many people enquired particularly about you; Sir Charles especially seemed troubled you were ill, Mr Birch and Mrs John Brown, Mrs W Danniell, and
(Page 9)
made many enquiries about us and I wish I could hear you were better. You want more of a change than Tansor could afford I feel sure. I am very glad Uncle12 has had you both, and Margaret, as I know it was a pleasure to him, and I hope poor man he is more comfortable since your visits, and the pain in his head and eye gone - Old James hoped he might be able to leave his wife and go to Tansor the end of this week, for a long hoped-for visit - She is very infirm but cheered up a little when ever I saw her - My first visit was to Mrs Fisher for a fortnight, and I found her wonder-
(Page 10)
-fully well for her age. She is restless like poor old Marion, fancies she should like to go into lodgings at Colchester, instead of living in her own house - I doubt the advantage if she does so, but probably she will never do it - I must leave off scribbling - have not heard whether the Howard's13 have come to terms about any house yet - Kind love to you and Tassie and all. I don't know whether Margaret returned with you from Tansor.
Ever dear Edward your very affectionate sister
Harriet Liveing.
PS
I saw Theodore and thought he looked a fine strong fellow and very agreeable.

Footnotes
1. Margaret Alston of Alston Court [67]
2. Samuel Alston of Alston Court [63]
3. The "Blue Man" Samuel Alston [640] by Beeston Coyte 1752
4. Annie Hand nee Fenn [4]
5. Jacobus Vanderzee attorney at law [120]
6. See Edward Alston [2795] party to this indenture
7. John Ambrose Rev [7037]
8. Theodore Fenn [8]
9. Priscilla Torlesse [1669]
10. Fanny Torlesse [1681]
11. Torlesse C M Rev. [1633]
12. Liveing Henry T Rev of Tansor [2038]
13. Howard William [986]


picture

Harriet married Capt Robert FENN [198] [MRIN: 76], son of Simon FENN [4546] and Elizabeth UNDERWOOD [4547], on 18 May 1813 in St Nicholas Harwich ESS. (Capt Robert FENN [198] was christened on 2 Oct 1785 in Coddenham SFK, died on 27 Mar 1844 in Coddenham SFK and was buried on 3 Apr 1844 in Coddenham SFK.). The cause of his death was dropsy.


Copyright © and all rights reserved to Edward Liveing Fenn and all other contributors of personal data. No personal data to be used without attribution or for commercial purposes. Interested persons who wish to share this data are welcome to contact edward@thekingscandlesticks.com to arrange same and be given the details.


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