The Kings Candlesticks - Family Trees
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Robert LIVEING [427]
(1714-1785)
Sarah HEARN [428]
(Cir 1723-1772)
Thomas HARROLD [131]
(1726-1791)
Deborah BETTS [21861]
(1726-1809)
Commander Thomas LIVEING R N [230]
(1760-1836)
Harriet HARROLD [231]
(1762-1837)

Dr Edward LIVEING M.R.C.S. [98]
(Cir 1795-1843)

 

Family Links

Spouses/Children:
Catherine Mary DOWNING [97]

Dr Edward LIVEING M.R.C.S. [98]

  • Born: Cir 1795
  • Baptised: 28 Oct 1795, St Nicholas Harwich ESS
  • Marriage: Catherine Mary DOWNING [97] on 11 Jul 1821 in Stoke By Nayland SFK
  • Died: 10 Mar 1843, Nayland SFK aged about 48
  • Buried: 17 Mar 1843, Nayland Churchyard SFK

bullet   Cause of his death was acute throat infection.

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bullet  General Notes:


My father, Edward Liveing, went to school at Cheshunt, his uncle Edward Harold thought it a good school until about 16. His thoughtful and serious disposition was there shown in his caring less for games than other boys, chiefly delighting to get alone by himself in the playground with a book. He was very fond of books.
Liveing Archive note by Edward Liveing Jnr.

Edward was apprenticed to Dr Thomas Harrold surgeon and apothecary of Nayland 1812 - 1817; LSA & MRCS 1817.

A. Alston Fenn records they had 11 children, lived at Stourbank (now Bear House, 19 Bear St) which he bought from a William Sinnott of Clerkenwell in 1835. Stourbank in 1839 comprised a house and garden of 3/4 of an acre, plus an orchard opposite of 2/3 of an acre. The house had been occupied by members of the family on and off since Dr Thomas Churchman Harrold purchased it in 1795, it was rented by Dr Edward Liveing to his nephew Dr Thomas Fenn.

Colchester Medical Society Records;
Elected 1825
President 1835
Resigned 17 Aug 1841.

BYGONE DAYS Pg. 88 by
FRANCES H TORLESSE
"Mr Liveing was a man of very strong individuality. Keenly devoted to his profession, he used it as a means of helping his fellow creatures, not only in illness, but equally for their spiritual and social good.
When I was a child his name was still a household word in every cottage, and many are the stories I have been told of his peremptory, but efficient methods of dealing with illness.
I have heard that if two messages came to the surgery at the same time asking for his attendance, one from the squire and one from the cottage he would go to the cottage
first. . . . . . Mr Liveing was my parents (Rev Charles Torlesse [1633] ) most faithful friend; his talents, his time, his purse were always ready in the carrying out of any scheme for the benefit of the poor".
Pg 108.
The Post Office and shop in Stoke used to sell arsenic "as freely as sugar plums for its common use of rat killing.
There was a farmers family living at the Poplars farm, and one day as the family had finished the pudden that came before meat, several of those who had eaten were taken violently ill.
Mr Liveing was soon on the spot and one of those taken ill told me - Mr Liveings he came with his stomach pump and he copped of his hat and up with his sleeves and said - say your prayers for you'll soon all be dead".
The farmers wife who was a near (thrifty) woman had mistakenly used arsenic powder having run short of flour. She and two others died.

The Red Barn Murder Polstead 1828
A William Corder murdered his lover Maria Martin in the Red Barn and buried her body there. He was arrested in London, tried in Bury St Edmunds, and hung there before a crowd of 20,000. Dr Liveing gave evidence on the 2nd day of trial (3 Aug 1828) for the defence: "I have attended the prisoner professionally and frequently paid him visits. at about this time last year I advised him to leave that part of the country (Polstead) and go to a warm bathing place. I particularly mentioned Hastings or some other place on the South Coast. At that time he exhibited strong signs of consumption, (later shown not to be the case: upon his dissection his chest and lungs were found in healthy order) and that was the reason why I recommended him to remove, thinking that the change might benefit his health. I afterwards saw his mother from whom I understood he was gone".

Edward was assessed for Quit Rent by the Manor of Nayland in 1827 for a Messuage in Bear St (late Harrolds) and land at 11/- (Quite a substantial sum when compared to Grooms, the Alston property)


23 Oct 1840 Fortescue Knotterford wrote to Edward re dealings with a farm at Crowfield; see Notes [7076]

Mentioned in the 1841 census of Hadleigh ref Harrison Genealogist 1989.

Coroners Inquisition.
Bury St Edmunds
Edward gave evidence at a hearing into the death of Samuel Beardwell, a patient of his, who had committed suicide by cutting his throat in the privy. Edward described him as a man "of remarkably patient and good conduct" who had suffered a long illness.
Ref: Ipswich Journal October 2, 1841

Died.
10th inst., after a painful affliction, E Liveing Esq., surgeon, of Nayland, Suffolk, leaving a widow and 10 children do more on their irreparable loss. The deceased was universally respected.
Ref: Ipswich Journal 25 and March 1843.

F F Knottesford writes to Catherine on the 14 March 1843 a letter of commiseration on Edwards death which to the modern eye reads more like a sermon on death - see pictures.

Interred in the family grave in the Nayland Churchyard under the East Window, it reads Edward Liveing MRCS 10-3-1843 aged 47, Catherine Mary his wife 31-10-1872 aged 74, Frances their 2nd daughter 24-4-1843 aged 19, Sarah Ann their 3rd daughter 22-2-1844 aged 18, Thomas their 4th son 28-3-1841 aged 21days.
Death Reg - Sudbury 12 314.

A memorial in the Chancel Nayland Church reads:
Near this spot are deposited in hope of the resurrection to eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ the mortal remains of Edward Liveing of this Parish, member of the Royal College of Surgeons he died March the 10th 1843 in the 48th year of his age. The rich and poor of this neighbourhood have raised this monument out of an universal feeling of affectionate regard for their common friend.
Thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. Luke:14:14

Summary of the Will of Edward Liveing of Nayland Surgeon.
The will is dated 30 Jun 1835 when Edward was aged 39, the thrust of the wordy five page document is to preserve his estate in trust for "the maintenance, education, clothing, and bringing up" of his children and provide for his wife a life grant until her demise or remarriage. Thereupon to be dispersed to his children at their majority in equal parts share and share alike, apart from his eldest child named George Downing Liveing who receives the L500 legacy but appears to have been provided for by his mother "by other means".
After the payment of his Debts he bequeaths to his dear wife Catherine Mary Liveing a sum of L200 and all his household goods - furniture plate linen china glass books prints pictures and other household effects and stores including his medical and surgical books and instruments, drugs, utensils, and stock of his profession as a surgeon.
To each and every of his children L500 who shall be living or born after his decease, and who shall live to age 21.
To his wife Catherine Mary Liveing and his brother Charles Liveing of Camberwell Surrey all his freehold messuage and tenement lands and meadows in Nayland wherein he did reside, also his freehold house and double tenement in Nayland called the Nags being formerly a Public house, to hold in trust as trustees.
To his wife Catherine Mary Liveing and his brother Charles Liveing of Camberwell Surrey all the residue and remainder of his estate, to sell and dispose of such and convert the same into money and to lay and invest the same in trust as trustees, for the benefit of his children and his dear wife for the term of her natural life or until she marry again.
He includes a reminder to pay an annual ground rent of L52/17/6 on the leasehold interest in two messuages and premises in Regent St London.
He appoints his wife Catherine Mary Liveing and his brother Charles Liveing of Camberwell Surrey executors in trust of his will, revoking all other wills and testamentary dispositions made by him.
His signing was witnessed by: George Harnage of Marksley Essex Commander RN, William Meadower of Boxford Suffolk surgeon, and Thomas H Fenn of Nayland gentleman.
Proved at London 19th July 1843 by the oath of Charles Liveing Esq brother and one of the executors
Copy of Will on this file.
It can be suggested that Edward by the timing and tone of his Will may have sensed the prospect of his demise just eight years later.

Nayland.
Superior Live and Dead Farming Stock.
To Be Sold by Auction
On Thursday, April 13, 1843
By the direction of the Executors of the late Edward Liveing Esq.
Comprising two capital Chestnut Cart Mares, 7 and 8 years old. Black gelding, 9 Shotes, Road wagon, 2 3/4 load Carts, half load ditto, wheel plough, gang of iron harrows, one horse roll, patent chaff cutting machine, three iron hog troughs, dressing machine, eight coombs of beans, 10 times coombs of peas, barn utensils and sacks, corn hutch, chaff sieve, two sets of tillhorse harness, two sets of plough and one said of cart ditto, and usual farming tools.
The implements and harness included in the sale are nearly new, and the greater part of them had scarcely been used, the whole having been purchased with in the last six months.
Sale to commence at three o'clock in the afternoon.
Ref: Ipswich Journal 8 April 1843.

Silhouette in possession of E L Fenn Auckland NZ 1998.

bullet  Research Notes:


Sheffield Archives:
Spencer Stanhope Muniments [SpSt/173 - SpSt/273]
Spencer-Stanhope family of Horsforth and Cawthorne, West Riding of Yorkshire
[Access Conditions]
A Written application form to use the collection must be completed. This includes an undertaking concerning use of the documents in any published work.
Deeds and Wills
Title deeds to property in Bargh - ref. SpSt/177-178

FILE - Reconveyance - ref. SpSt/177/28 - date: 10 Aug 1843
Alderman Manning of Dedham, Essex, esq., of the first part: Charles Liveing of Camberwell, Surrey, esq., Rev. Henry Thomas Liveing of Nayland, Suffolk, clerk, and Robert Liveing Fenn of Camberwell Grove, Surrey, gent., of the second part: Richard James Marsh of Lower Belgrave Place, Pimlico, co. Middlesex, gent., of the third part: John Pike of Old Burlington Street, co. Middlesex, gent., and John Christian Wittick of Bath Terrace, Camberwell Rd., Surrey, gent., of the fourth part.
(x) Indenture of transfer, 16 Jan 1840, by which Manning assigned to Edward, Charles, Henry Thomas, and Robert Liveing, the above principal sums.
(xiii) Death of Edward Liveing, Mar 1843.
(xiv) Order in Chancery of 24 May 1843 by which all interest, L.370 1/8, is to be paid to Charles, Henry Thomas and Robert Liveing.
To find out more about the archives described below, contact Sheffield Archives <http://www.archon.nationalarchives.gov.uk/archon/searches/locresult_details.asp?LR=199>
A2A Not searched E L Fenn 2008.

Information relating to document ref. no. MS 11936/556/1252447 Sun Fire Office
Insured: Robert Masters, 12 Wyndham Street Marylebone, gent, and Edward Liveing, Nayland Suffolk Other property or occupiers: 2 Medina Place Grove End Road St. Johns Wood. [Guildhall Library] Date: 1837.
Source: Access to Archives (A2A): not kept at The National Archives

Liveing Archive IMG 2839 - 2852 catalogues copies of letters between Liveing Torlesse and other family - it is not known if these have survived

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bullet  Other Records



Edward Liveing: Apprenticeship Indenture, 30 Sep 1811, to T C Harrold of Nayland. This indenture witnesseth that Edward Liveing son of Captain Thomas Liveing of Harwich in Essex doth put himself apprentice to TC Harrold, of Nayland in the County of Suffolk, surgeon and apothecary. To learn his art and with him after the manner of an apprentice to serve from the day of the date hereof unto the full in and term of four years from then to be fully complete and ended. . . . . .
And the said TC Harrold, in consideration of the faithful service of the said Edward Liveing undertakes (without a premium) to instruct his said apprentice in the art of a surgeon and apothecary
. . . . . they put their Hand and Seals the thirtieth day of September in the fifty first year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord George III . . . . .in the year of our Lord 1811
Signed:TC Harrold
E Liveing
Witnesses TM Brook John Whitmore
Printing illegible in places.



Edward Liveing of Nayland. Images: Edward a silhouette as a young man, Nayland Village 1838, Edward's home Stourbank Nayland (1998), memorial to Edward, St James Nayland, which reads: A memorial in the Chancel Nayland Church reads:
Near this spot are deposited in hope of the resurrection to eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ the mortal remains of Edward Liveing of this Parish, member of the Royal College of Surgeons he died March the 10th 1843 in the 48th year of his age. The rich and poor of this neighbourhood have raised this monument out of an universal feeling of affectionate regard for their common friend.
Thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. Luke:14:14
.



Letter From Dr Edward Liveing.: to Rev J T Nottage, 11 Aug ?, Nayland. Ref: Liveing Archive Images IMG 2584-2590

To the Rev J T Nottage
Ipswich
Suffolk

Nayland Friday, August 11th
Dear Sir
I have visited Mrs Torlesse twice since I received your letter and upon the whole I think her better - Her present emaciation is partly the result of a severe diarrhoea, which attacked her when on the Rhine, but which now is considerably relieved. I can perceive no signs of disease in any organ but there is a great languor and debility of the whole muscular system and of the heart in particular the consequence of which is that Mrs T is soon tired and hardly very comfortably warm She suffers much from atmospherical changes and is readily disposed to aguish attacks. It was a mixed case of ague & influenza which during the late winter reduced her so alarmingly a repetition of like attacks in the coming autumn and winter is what is most to be dreaded and to guard against which precautionary measures must be taken. May I be allowed to suggest to you that an invitation to spend a fortnight with two of her children at Felixstowe in the end of September and early part of October will if attended to be proven beneficial - A quiet sojurn by the sea with part of her family, and the remainder not far away, will I believe be a much more restorative measure than the recently accomplished journey - I assure you it will be a great relief to me as her professional attendant to see her strength and flesh increased before the setting in of another winter - as a friend and neighbour, and a constant witness of her judicious and increasing exertions for the benefit of the laye population of Stoke as well as her own family, I feel now greatly calamitous her loss would be if . . . . . attend to my suggestion I should advise that it came as from yourself, and if any objection is made from unwillingness to leave her family again so soon, or otherwise then refer to me to overrule it.
I remain dear Sir
Yours most truly
E Liveing.



Letter From Dr Edward Liveing.: to His Brother William, 27 Apr 1835. Ref: Liveing Archive Images IMG 2452/3/4/5
To Capt William Liveing.

Monday, April 27, 1835
Dear William
I should have written in answer to your letter before, but the very cold dry winds have produced so much scarlet fever that I have had no opportunity I am sorry, & the children no less so that I cannot accept your kind invitation - I have been long talking of a trip to Wales & especially to the part you mention, nothing could have been more agreeable than your proposition, but alas, a poor medicns (sic) is doomed to continued disappointment in all his prospects
Page 2.
& projects of amusement. I have just now much occupation & of such a nature that entre nous my Uncle cannot be my substitute - I am therefore per force precluded much happiness and enjoyment - I have just got a letter from Cheshunt - my Uncle asks me to take his boy Ewan for a twelvemonth after Tom Fenn leaves me - I am under obligations to my Uncle for much kindliness shewed to me when I was a lad myself I shall therefore not refuse, but I doubt much the effect of turning such a turbulent chap upon me, or if I shall be able to control him & keep him in order - I would between ourselves have rather given him L50 not to have had the request made, but do not let this be mentioned, for I have made up my mind to receive the lad, & I may as well do it in good grace - I am occupied much with Miss Cleghorn who was a few weeks since a fine young woman but is now at death's door, the consequence of scarlet fever & its results - her father is barely recovered from a dangerous illness of three months duration, in which I had his work to do the change of him likewise throughout his illness . . . . . Tom Hearn is just come . . . . . them further; poor people I am sorry for them, although time past they have been not reputable or respectable.
Henry has received a kind letter from the Bishop of London, allowing him to become the curate of Wix - he will therefore come into this neighbourhood in the month of July, and I hope for his sake Old Johnny as he is called will be long-lived, as well us out of the singular regard I have for him myself His sister
Page 3.
is recovered - Our new governess suits us . . . . . she is not in any way an unpleasant . . . . . much in my favour, for what with apprenti . . . . . little like my new & not agreeable home
A man who is too little with his family as I am, ought not to have that intercourse curtailed by people who give him trouble instead of pleasure - I would that I could do without before Ewen comes I shall dispatch my Geo to Mr Kitchens if he have a vacancy - Kate & the children send their love to you Louisa and Betty who joins your affect . . . . .
E Liveing.



Letter From Dr Edward Liveing.: to His Sister Harriett, 1839.
Mrs Fenn
National Debt office
Dear Harriet
You're somewhat disconsolate letter I received yesterday and although I was up the greater part of last night I will endeavour to reply to it though it will probably be but a sleepy epistle.
And first about the horse and the dreadful leaps, I have been over the Wiltshire Downs and dont remember any hedges and ditches they are fenced by low stone walls loosely piled without cement the enclosures are very extensive and I have no doubt that if I rode in that country I should do likewise for taking low fences without ditches on a green sward is rather a pleasant and wholesome exercise. If Tom finds his horse to thin-skinned for the bleak air I should think the loss cannot be very great as I calculate that 15L was the cost allowing 5 for bridal and saddle it must be a poor beast indeed if it be not worth 15L - as to the marriage I think that it is very desirable as a means of facilitating his introductions and with regard to his furniture his letter shews that he intends
Page 2
to buy of Mr Davies only such portions as our likely to be serviceable and finally as to the general prospects as there is every appearance of a successful issue so I should think you might endeavour to set the fair side of the picture before you and not turn to the back of it for constant contemplation
My friends the Monkhouse's are acquainted with Lady Gere and Captain Montague and will write to them what I dictate in the most ready and obliging manner and perhaps the other person's to whom Tom desires introductions may be in the end found to have acquaintances through whom some of us may make him known.
There is one advantage in beginning in the winter that the hardest work is first and the anticipation of spring and summer cherish pleasant hopes and expectations - I am sorry as you seem to think it would have been advantageous that Robert did not buy one of the houses - at the same time a defective title is a serious objection and the late owner though he bought cheaply has I believe sold at a loss.
I am afraid Mr Whitinge has no thousands in there for Leavenheath if he do give a tythe
Page 3
of it we shall be very glad - I began this yesterday but having been inexpectantly occupied I will endeavour to finish it to night and I want to send a letter to Mrs H. J Amber and a note to Chas and also to enclose you Mr Monkhouse note to me this morning after my good account of Tom to which he alludes - I shall send all by the Hadleigh coach - Kate Mary and I dined with the Melvils and had a very pleasant evening Mrs M is a very good tempered friendly creature I am sure Mary had seen her at Camberwell and they were quite well acquainted as if old friends - it is a great advantage to spend a few hours with such people as Mr and Mrs Smith, and their friends too seem to be of the best description of people. Mrs Smith's sister has at my request taken the deaf Miss Stratford for her only child's governess a very great advantage for her as her infirmity though not so great as to interfere with one child when there is no confusion of sounds is still such as to make Mamas unwilling to engage with her She has been there a month and Mrs Powis is desires to keep her on. She describes Mrs P as of the same angelic disposition as her sister - I was up the night before last with a Mr Duckham who was very severely injured in attacking single-handed three thieves who had broken into his Aunts barn he lost many pints of blood from one of his wounds, but today he is doing very well indeed the loss proving no doubt salutary, the rogues not yet discovered though he pretty well marked one of them with a poker. I have a compound fracture which you may tell Tom I am treating his way by letting it be without splints or bandages as it seems doing well also I have extracted secondary teeth in his way with success.
The Alstons are quite well
Page 4
Mr Sims and his bride are not yet returned the latter is about 56 and has an annuity I hear of 400L a year but my authority is none of the best - Mr W. Stannard and his family are about to to leave Wisson Mill his wife cannot get over the drowning of her son last summer and hates the place - they have brought a nice house and 30 acres of land near Colchester and his nephew Jerh who went to Wales with me is to marry Mr Stannards daughter his cousin and live at the mill - little Miss Birch and the maid who is sister to our Emma and did live at Mr Storys(?) has scarlet fever - I have lost two fine boys with it nearby - of course the Richie's are very anxious for the secondary symptoms of this complaint have been very troublesome Mr Wombwells train of wild beast wagons just gone by Ned and Bob must be got to Colchester to see them as they seem very desirous - Cousin Henry wore the garments you mention . . . . . very well - poor Loveday has lost his brother in law Colonel Herring he was in the battle lately fought in the East Indies and escaped but whilst walking with 3 and more outside the walls of the fortress fell by 18 dagger wounds from banditti, his wife came to England and confined with twins on board the ship.
I hope you will in time to decipher my scrawl we are all well and with . . . . . love to Tom and Robert
I am dear sister
Your affectionate
E Liveing
Nayland Thursdy Night

Letter written on four sides at all angles of one sheet folded to an envelope but not stamped. Addressed to :
Mrs Fenn
National Debt Office
Pencil notes by G D Liveing:
"My fathers about T H Fenn taking a practice at Pewsey Wilts etc" and Alston A Fenn who notes "Probably written about 1839 - Mrs Downing [64] his mother in law referred to in letter died in 1840."

Note by Edward Liveing.
The Fripps are related to us on the Downing Side - My Mother and Grandmamma Downing used to go every alternate years to visit the Bristol cousins, some of whom were Fripps - They travelled in fear of highwaymen

Census: England, 7 Jun 1841, Bures St Nayland SFK. Edward is described as aged 45 a surgeon not born SFK



Liveing Family Memorabilia: Documented & Sketched mainly by George D Liveing.


picture

Edward married Catherine Mary DOWNING [97] [MRIN: 65], daughter of George DOWNING [96] and Mary ALSTON [91], on 11 Jul 1821 in Stoke By Nayland SFK. (Catherine Mary DOWNING [97] was born on 8 Apr 1798 in Hatton Garden London, baptised on 12 May 1798 in St Andews Holborn, died on 31 Oct 1872 in Cambridge CAM. and was buried in 1872 in Nayland Churchyard SFK.). The cause of her death was weak heart.


Copyright © and all rights reserved to Edward Liveing Fenn and all other contributors of personal data. No personal data to be used without attribution or for commercial purposes. Interested persons who wish to share this data are welcome to contact edward@thekingscandlesticks.com to arrange same and be given the details.


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